DISQUS

ParisLemon: On Citizen Journalism, The Degradation Of Society, And Bitchmemes

  • mmmarc · 1 month ago
    Society started going down the tubes the day Elvis started shaking his hips... that sinner! Anyway, I'm not sure if society is really degrading or if it's just more noticeable now because of the Internet.

    I think you should try to be a little more optimistic about where humanity and its decency are going. A brief look at some of history's atrocities should be some affirmation that, though things aren't improving by leaps and bounds, they are improving.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    i still have nightmares about elvis shaking his hips
  • hardaway · 1 month ago
    I hesitate to write this because it will wind up angering everyone. Everyone is right here. And everybody is wrong. To an "elderstateswoman" it's gray.

    Some things are known: citizen journalism got somet hings wrong, some right. In a crisis, people are photographed and probably lose their privacy when they shouldn't. BUT the girl who took the pictures just came home from Iraq herself. She's dealing with her own issues. She dealt with them publicly, by tweeting her photos. She was processing information in the way young people do now, not looking for a book deal.

    To me, that gives her a pass, even though I wish she hadn't done it, and I wish the person who photographed the dying Iranian woman didn't do it.

    But people do things in the moment that they don't think through. And waddyaknow, they are something inappropriate or inaccurate. That's what forgiveness is for -- of Dave, of Paul, of the girl who did the tweets, and so on.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    some rational thoughts. thanks francine.
  • Ricky M. · 1 month ago
    According to Wikipedia, "Journalism is the craft of conveying news". I don't understand why we label it "citizen journalism" when these "journalists" aren't crafting anything. Citizens aren't searching for a story at all. They are merely witnesses to it , so why can't we assume they are simply witnessing the news? Citizens who document an event are simply capturing it, not crafting a story. I vote to start calling it "witnessing journalism".
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    yeah i dont like 'citizen journalism' either.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    reminds me too much of 'citizens on patrol' from one of the police academy moves (4?)
  • samj · 1 month ago
    These citizen "journalists" play a more important role as eyes and ears of "real" "citizen journalists" at publications like HuffPo & TechCrunch... their output need not be squeaky clean as upstream writers will rely on multiple and/or reliable primary sources.
  • Webomatica · 1 month ago
    How about "glorified witnesses?"
  • amy · 1 month ago
    well paris lemon, you are not exactly helping society get any more decent. For example, several people including myself posted a happy birthday to you last week, but did not see you acknowledging all the nice birthday wishes you received anywhere. It's as if you were too busy writing to get page views to take two seconds to say you appreciated all those folks who wished you happy birthday. Matt Ingram would definitely say "thank you" and that's why Matt has more class than 90% of the writers out there today.You brought it up, so I'm just saying my piece.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    well this is going to make me sound like even more of a dick, but i am sorry, there were just too many to respond to each one while trying to work that day. that said, i am very appreciative of the wishes, I did see them all (i think), and i do thank you for yours!
  • nothing identifiable · 1 month ago
    i'm sorry, maybe this'll make me sound like a dick, but what's the deal with people expecting something back for a gift/good wish/etc.? to me this says something about our society these days. you could say, well, acknowledging it takes no time at all. but multiply that by the number of connections we're maintaining these days. i saw mg's tweet thanking everyone for all the birthday wishes... and i didn't even send mine (thinking there'd be way too many already), i just thought it and left it at that. anyway, as you say, you brought it up, so just saying my piece.
  • amy · 1 month ago
    whatever , @nothing identifiable... how about one post to everyone "hey eveyone, thx for the b-day wishes kthxbai" - wow, that took me all of 3.2 seconds to type

    I certainly wasn't expecting a personal thank you. I'm merely pointing out that if someone's going to bemoan the degredation of society's manners then be aware when they do the very thing they are bitching about.

    MG hope you had a great one!
  • me again · 1 month ago
    actually went back and looked, and he did say a general thanks, which is cool. I only saw after many had posted (after MG had already posted).

    So, cool. Be glad that you have that many people who care enough to acknowledge. I would be touched if that many people gave me well wishes. I doubt on mine there will be many, so that's nice. I guess we should all be grateful for the small things :)
  • GabeRivera · 1 month ago
    LOL
  • paulcarr · 1 month ago
    +1
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 month ago
    group hug?
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    i'm generally thanking you guys for this wonderful thread.
  • Alexia Tsotsis · 1 month ago
    A general thanks in the comments is not enough MG. What you should do, what the new laws of isociety now dictate, is write an entire post thanking us. It's the least you can do.
  • lame · 1 month ago
    were you trying to be funny Alexia? (psst.... didn't work)
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    it's coming.
  • kartar · 1 month ago
    I don't see society ("human society"?) going down the tubes or human decency being eroded. I just see society as largely unchanged with occasional cyclical variations where things get "better" or "worse".

    To see it any other way implies that at some time human society was inherently MORE decent and that we've eroded from this point. I'd challenge you to find such a baseline. Society has had evils forever - slavery, war, prejudice, ignorance, racism, and violence. It has had heroes (many controversial - one man's freedom fighter, etc) - MLK, Ghandi, Neimoller, etc, etc. It's had villains. It's had indifference and apathy.

    Hence we may even be in a "worse" cycle (and I'd probably argue that too) but I don't see this as being part of some progressive erosion of overall human decency.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    yeah i thought about how things have changed for the better too - but overall, i don't know, i still suspect that we are going to keep getting worse and sadly, new technology may play a pretty big roll in that, as paul brings up.
  • yeah · 1 month ago
    sometimes when i hear people say that "as a whole society is degrading. moral values, the moral equilibrium/spectrum/balance is being obliterated by us all," i think i'm either hearing a joke or a prophecy of the future and i don't know how to react. i'm glad that we are not the only ones. there are many people who can see what is happening in the world no matter the spin, no matter the overly optimitic people, reality is reality. it is a messy, often horrific (depending on where in the world you live), enlightening, beautiful, fun, depressing, and so much more. i might be a cynic like mg, but i don't think 100% a convert. i just truly think that people don't know how to handle certain technolgies/models and intergrating them into our lives, society or what we used to know of our lives, when respect, moral, and some other pretty important societal things were kings. i mean it's okay in today's world to not give a crap about anything or anyone. it's "normal". i don't know about you and i don't know how much of a dissapointing human being that i am but i will fight everday to make sure that normal isn't all about saying fuck all in life. it's just too bad and too sad. we deserve better. the world deserve better. we can't keep shortchanging ourselves.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    many people definitely don't know how to integrate these new technologies into their lives in reasonable ways, i'm one of them. i go way overboard (checking twitter every 5 minutes, for example).
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 month ago
    Paul's post highlights what is still possible in this format: reasoned critique of culture

    Dave's post highlights what is still possible in this format: misplaced critique of perceived condition

    Where both posts are thin is where each reader can view inflection -- and perhaps video being the preferred spoon fed pudding of the masses would be best suited to address concerns over this matter.

    However, the -use- of video (but not of their own voices speaking to the reader per se) is exactly what sets apart the two posts for me as the reader. Paul produces a tangible example of the precise moments in our collective visual video streaming psyche that frames his argument in direct terms. Dave opts for, yes, a cranky geek.

    The "fascinating" part of Dave's post? Dave essentially distilled his fear of what everything is now: people are motivated by using the pain of others for personal gain. Earth. Shattering. Stuff. Pray tell oh great teacher... where may we find more of this concept in our past?

    For me, Dave's post is a reflection of his own frustration with everything except what Paul was writing about in the first place. But based on my limited experience as a reader, that's just Dave.
  • Imran Jafri · 1 month ago
    I read the entire post of Paul and it raises very valid points about Citizen Journalism and anyone who thinks he just did it to get more traffic or thinks it's rubbish must be the one who wants to get some traffic to his/her blog by making a controversial post like the one mentioned above.
  • dave · 1 month ago
    I read the whole piece, and I never sai TC had a deal with Twitter, nor do I believe they did.

    And you must have missed this piece...

    http://www.scripting.com/stories/2009/09/22/the...

    Suggest you just accept fair criticism w/o personal attacks. Longterm it would get you even more flow, imho.
  • MG Siegler · 1 month ago
    ha. okay.

    http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/1492179025
    http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/1556315672
    http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/1556275545
    http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/1559893823
    http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/1742287373

    there are more. need I go on? I didn't think so.

    just in case you go ahead and delete some of these i'll highlight the text of the first tweet included here:

    "Imho, no one from TechCrunch should comment on Twitter or their competitors, without disclaiming their business relationship with Twitter."
  • GabeRivera · 1 month ago
    LOL... Oh if he doesn't flat out say you're bought off, he'll just keep insinuating the idea. Because SXSW didn't make him a speaker, he suggested there must be a payoff behind this (!) http://www.scripting.com/stories/2009/09/02/sor... . Of course he's floated the idea that Techmeme is payed off, naturally by Arrington http://www.scripting.com/stories/2008/11/15/rem...

    Winer's targets usually don't bother responding to him these days (I rarely do), but it's probably good to point out these scummy smear tactics once in a while. For the newbies.
  • Scott E · 1 month ago
    "The movie Idiocracy is far from a great one, but it’s overall theme is so dead-on in my mind. That will be us in a few hundred years."
    I agree 100% with you, MG. I've watched that movie a good five times now (yes, it's pretty dumb itself, but you can't help but wonder how accurate it will be) and not only do I get a great number of laughs from the sheer stupidity of the characters and the story in general, but I also find myself cringing at the fact that I actually worry about it coming true. The logic behind the stupid people in the world breeding like crack-addled rabbits while the highly intelligent decide to wait until their careers are set (or the world is a better place, or they make more money, etc.) seems to ring true already, as evidenced by the fact that single, unemployed mother Nadya Suleman, who lives with her parents, now has 14 children that she supports with public assistance programs. Good god!

    Scott E
  • Webomatica · 1 month ago
    I'll just add: technology is merely a tool, to be used for bad or good, and unfortunately I tend to agree with you that since society is losing its moral footing, technology is increasingly used in negative ways.

    To tie it back to your point, it's great that we have journalist tools in the hands of everyone, but bad that most people are using it for stupid, sensational, ego-driven purposes. We're in a situation of technology advancing faster than we learn how to use it responsibly.