Arrington: We need a fake news Item on the albatross around my neck, more commonly known as Seesmic. Which one of you underfed nerds wants to write it?
MG: I would be honored, chief?
Arrington: Anyone else?
(No one raises a hand)
Arrington: OK Silversteen, you have the job. Remember to mention how unique and cool it is and that in no way are you being forced to write this story.
MG: You can count on me, Chief?
Arrington: And also remember NOT to mention the fact that the story is, by definition, a conflict of interest.
MG: What is a conflict of interest, chief?
Arrington: Good boy!
Stefanos Kofopoulos
· 1 month ago
Huh, this is quite interesting but i'm waiting Paul's response on that. Looks like you're on the right side though
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
@Stefanos K - I'd have responded on my blog sooner, but I'm finishing off my TC column first. Meantime, needless to say, I +1 ever word MG wrote above. Just a great post.
MG Siegler
· 1 month ago
thx paul, looking forward to reading what you have to say as well.
Imran Jafri
· 1 month ago
I am a regular visitor of Techcrunch and you are one of my most favorite tech writers. However I must say sometimes the choice of images is really horrible... just have a look at this post http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/google-voi... in which Mike is talking about his mother, flowers and Google voice...... what this has to do with a naked guy holding a flower ? Mike might think it's funny but it's actually not here.... and most people didn't like it as you can see in comments.....
MG Siegler
· 1 month ago
hmm can't speak to mike's image choice there, but for mine, those were all related to the post. thx
Nancy Charmichael
· 1 month ago
Let's be honest, the young lady is exactly right.
Lots of boob and sex references in TC. My guess: You guys are a lonely bunch. That said: it shouldn't be something women in this day and age--should have to deal with at work.
Your explanation doth protest too much, and a simple apology would get things running smoothly again.
But you're spot on wrong on this one.
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
@Imran
That image undermines Byrne's point even further. Hardly fratty, is it?
Also, I don't see that many commenters complaining about the photo. Most seem to be taking it in fun. In fact I only see one person calling it "horrible" - and that's you. I'd be interested to know what you found so horrible about the image? The rose or the fact that it's mildly homoerotic?
Imran Jafri
· 1 month ago
may be it's because i come from different culture..... however i still think when you are talking about your mother in a post (that was kind of personal post) it's not appropriate to post 'mildly' homoerotic image in that.
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
Maybe that's the reason - and you are perfectly entitled to your view, of course - but I think by American standards, it's a fairly innocuous image. It's up to Mike which images he uses to illustrate a post in which he mentions his mother.
Either way, that's a separate discussion to the one about whether TechCrunch is anti-women. My view is that posting a bare-chested man to illustrate a story, if anything, runs entirely contrary to that allegation.
Thomas
· 1 month ago
@Imfran
Just corroborating Paulcarr here because I didn't want to feel like I read all those comments for nothing.
I don't think the post was all that personal. It really just included that he had sent his mother flowers and she had tried to thank him. The heart of the post was how funny things can happen with google voice.
Imran Jafri
· 1 month ago
Alright let me explain what i meant, TC is hugely popular Tech Blog with global audience, Men, Women of different culture read this blog (i guess folks at TC are aware of that - TC is most popular in United States followed by Pakistan http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/techcrunch.com)... something which is not offensive in your eyes might be offensive in someone else books.... I don't find Asian Boobs image offensive, however one lady did. Most European and American didn't find Mike's image 'lame' however i did... ( i come from Pakistan )
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
I think it's a slippery slope if we start demanding that global sites conform to the most repressed common denominator. The fact that you didn't find the asian boobs image offensive but a bare-chested man gives you hives is probably an issue you need to deal with on your own.
Imran Jafri
· 1 month ago
damn !! i just rechecked the asian boobs post .... when i first checked some days back there was only one picture and that was not offensive at all... either this post has been updated with new pictures or i looked at a different post ??? and now i see why the lady in question is offended.
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
"Damn"
I find your language offensive.
Rod Begbie
· 1 month ago
While I agree that your point that the images of "Asian Boobs" were pertinent to your post, and that Byrne's comments seem out of place, I'd warn you against using this argument:
"But there were other women there, and they don’t appear to be upset about this."
That's a fairly standard response to being accused of sexism, and it's never acceptable, implying that all women should or can be offended by the same thing.
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
Agreed. But she was only there for an hour, and has only visited the office once. The women MG is referring to work in the office every day. I've spoken to them as well and their response was unanimous: there is absolutely no problem with sexism at TC. She doesn't even specify what the so-called "banter" was. The truth is, she was offended because noone - male or female - gave her the time of day when she swanned in. Because they were busy doing their jobs.
MG Siegler
· 1 month ago
Great point Rob. But like Paul said, these are women we know fairly well. And as I said, I wasn't there, so I won't really speak to what was or wasn't said. I just don't see an reason to attack me (or Paul) for any of this - whatever this is, if anything.
deciara
· 1 month ago
MG, I am not disputing the fact that there are some great female writers and other women involved in TC. But that is not the point. The point is the way you used the Asian Boob's post to post these images for no particular reason (please - 4 huge images?), the other articles listed (not by you) on TC and misogynist comments on TC. I still haven't seen a good response on this.
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
First of all, misogynist comments have no place on TC, but nor are they TC's fault. Everyone works hard to moderate out the most offensive stuff, but it's a constant battle.
Now to your demand for a "good response", by which you presumably means one that meets your own very narrow self-entitled standards. The asian boobs and vampire sex toy posts are just two of the 15,987 posts (I just checked) that have been published on TechCrunch. Hand me any publication with that many published articles and I'll prove any theory you like. How do *you* respond to the point above about the barechested man used to illustrate Mike's post? Sexist? And if so, towards which gender?
You accused MG specifically of being sexist, and the TC office of being like a frat house. The earlier version of your post was even more damning, and even more bullshit. You finding a post offensive does not mean it was objectively so. In the interests of accuracy in telling you to go fuck yourself, I made a point of speaking to *every* other woman who works full time in the TC office and none of them recognise the environment you describe in your single hour-long visit. A visit, by the way, during which you interrupted people while they were working, and then later characterised their focus and professionalism as social awkwardness. Your remarks about "big name writers" were as rude as they were inaccurate. As MG points out, the CEO of TechCrunch is Heather Harde, and a more professional, and brilliant woman I can't imagine working for. If there was even a sniff of sexism in the TechCrunch office, those responsible would be out of the door without their feet touching the floor.
Frankly the fact that MG has responded to you at all is a tribute to him. He's right, there's just one thing unwelcome at TechCrunch, and that's you.
MG Siegler
· 1 month ago
First, that certainly seemed to be your point when you wrote, and I quote, "The signal being sent here is that women have no place in TechCrunch."
Second, so you're saying if it were one image, you would have had no problem with it? Please.
Third, I still love how you assume to know my intent even though you've never met me and/or talked to me. If you took some personal exception to an experience you had that's fine, but don't drag me into this based on assumptions you are making about a person you have never met.
Anyway, you got your recognition now. Congrats. I consider this conversation over.
deciara
· 1 month ago
Paul this is a bit like saying that if you are racist but only 10% of the time... it's ok. My post is about content on the TC site (the office stuff is incidental in the published post) which is there for everyone to see. Do the articles or comments I mention - there are several others linked in the post - belong in TC or not? Why don't you see this stuff on TC Europe or other tech sites?
paulcarr
· 1 month ago
Ciara, you're just piling bullshit on top of bullshit now. We all read your original post which was everything to do with the TC office and staff. I have a saved copy of it, if you'd like me to repost it on my own blog and make you look even more stupid. You're only trying to now backpeddle and make your original accusations 'incidental' because you know how baseless, petty and moronic they were.
Yes the articles you mention belong on TechCrunch; that's why they're still there. No, the comments don't, which is why we all do our best to moderate them out. And yes you do see that kind of comment on TechCrunch Europe - and most other popular tech sites - too, pre-moderation.
MG has already said he considers the conversation over - and yet here you still are, bullshitting away. So let me be less polite than him, and put it in a way that even you can hopefully understand. The only thing that doesn't belong on TC is you, which is why I pray to God that we never see your limping, toxic byline on another TechCrunch post between now and the end of time.
Good night and good riddance.
holdenpage
· 1 month ago
Wow.
I mean, I can be an ass, but Paul, you did it beautifully.
joe hock
· 1 month ago
I read your original post, which was mostly about how you thought that the environment in the office was sexist. You have now trimmed your argument down to be about a single post out of 15,000 on a site, and a post that included images that were actually included in the AppStore product, to illustrate a point. The fact that you are constantly narrowing down your argument proves that your dislike for Techcrunch stems from nothing more than having your ego bruised by not seeing or meeting any 'better known' writers, or anybody really paying any attention to you.
Other women should be ashamed because you have overplayed the 'sexist/feminist' card for your own personal benefit.
EhabM
· 1 month ago
I'm no one special, and only found my way here because of a tweet from Loic about this and wanted to see why someone would curse another blogger out. I am new to this stuff and the bloggers I come across are the nicest people and usually refrain from curses, but I can now see why Paul Carr was so pissed. I read Tech Crunch occasionally for blackberry news and went to see the Asian Boobs article after reading this post. Its pretty clear to me why those photos were posted in the first place; to show Apple's hypocrisy. It's even stamped to show APPLE APPROVED. The shock factor was evident right when I went to the article. If anyone is being sexist its Apple, but we all know they are doing it for the money.
faryl
· 1 month ago
MG - good for you for writing this. I'm a frequent (& female) reader of yours (here, Techcrunch & your tweets) and have never picked up on anything that I'd construe as sexist or offensive.
What I do find offensive is another female pulling the sexism card because (at best) her personal tolerance was tested and/or for the sake of sensationalism (and perhaps a shot at getting to play with the big boys?).
Again - good for you for posting this!
ryan
· 1 month ago
Disclosure: I am a male.
That said, I was not offended by the post but can see how some women might find it distasteful. Finding it distasteful does not, however, imply that TC is like a "frat house" or that the author of the post is in any way sexist. I think it's pretty clear what the intent was with that post (and the point was very well made!).
However, I do like to read TC from work a couple of times a week and found the image to be potentially threatening should any coworkers (male OR female) walk by and see that content on my screen. I suppose I would have appreciated it a bit more if the article masked the images and had a little "is it OK to see women in sexually arousing positions on your screen in your current environment?" button.
You absolutely reserve the right to post whatever content you wish on your site. I would just ask that out of courtesy, you don't post material that could get me into trouble just because I'm interested in start-ups and internet companies. :)
Alex D
· 1 month ago
You can't beat a good Pro-Celebrity flame war can you.
I particularly like the way Mr Carr can tell someone to "go fuck yourself" without undermining his point.
All Comments
Arrington: We need a fake news Item on the albatross around my neck, more commonly known as Seesmic. Which one of you underfed nerds wants to write it?
MG: I would be honored, chief?
Arrington: Anyone else?
(No one raises a hand)
Arrington: OK Silversteen, you have the job. Remember to mention how unique and cool it is and that in no way are you being forced to write this story.
MG: You can count on me, Chief?
Arrington: And also remember NOT to mention the fact that the story is, by definition, a conflict of interest.
MG: What is a conflict of interest, chief?
Arrington: Good boy!
Lots of boob and sex references in TC. My guess: You guys are a lonely bunch. That said: it shouldn't be something women in this day and age--should have to deal with at work.
Your explanation doth protest too much, and a simple apology would get things running smoothly again.
But you're spot on wrong on this one.
That image undermines Byrne's point even further. Hardly fratty, is it?
Also, I don't see that many commenters complaining about the photo. Most seem to be taking it in fun. In fact I only see one person calling it "horrible" - and that's you. I'd be interested to know what you found so horrible about the image? The rose or the fact that it's mildly homoerotic?
Either way, that's a separate discussion to the one about whether TechCrunch is anti-women. My view is that posting a bare-chested man to illustrate a story, if anything, runs entirely contrary to that allegation.
Just corroborating Paulcarr here because I didn't want to feel like I read all those comments for nothing.
I don't think the post was all that personal. It really just included that he had sent his mother flowers and she had tried to thank him. The heart of the post was how funny things can happen with google voice.
I find your language offensive.
"But there were other women there, and they don’t appear to be upset about this."
That's a fairly standard response to being accused of sexism, and it's never acceptable, implying that all women should or can be offended by the same thing.
Now to your demand for a "good response", by which you presumably means one that meets your own very narrow self-entitled standards. The asian boobs and vampire sex toy posts are just two of the 15,987 posts (I just checked) that have been published on TechCrunch. Hand me any publication with that many published articles and I'll prove any theory you like. How do *you* respond to the point above about the barechested man used to illustrate Mike's post? Sexist? And if so, towards which gender?
You accused MG specifically of being sexist, and the TC office of being like a frat house. The earlier version of your post was even more damning, and even more bullshit. You finding a post offensive does not mean it was objectively so. In the interests of accuracy in telling you to go fuck yourself, I made a point of speaking to *every* other woman who works full time in the TC office and none of them recognise the environment you describe in your single hour-long visit. A visit, by the way, during which you interrupted people while they were working, and then later characterised their focus and professionalism as social awkwardness. Your remarks about "big name writers" were as rude as they were inaccurate. As MG points out, the CEO of TechCrunch is Heather Harde, and a more professional, and brilliant woman I can't imagine working for. If there was even a sniff of sexism in the TechCrunch office, those responsible would be out of the door without their feet touching the floor.
Frankly the fact that MG has responded to you at all is a tribute to him. He's right, there's just one thing unwelcome at TechCrunch, and that's you.
Second, so you're saying if it were one image, you would have had no problem with it? Please.
Third, I still love how you assume to know my intent even though you've never met me and/or talked to me. If you took some personal exception to an experience you had that's fine, but don't drag me into this based on assumptions you are making about a person you have never met.
Anyway, you got your recognition now. Congrats. I consider this conversation over.
Yes the articles you mention belong on TechCrunch; that's why they're still there. No, the comments don't, which is why we all do our best to moderate them out. And yes you do see that kind of comment on TechCrunch Europe - and most other popular tech sites - too, pre-moderation.
MG has already said he considers the conversation over - and yet here you still are, bullshitting away. So let me be less polite than him, and put it in a way that even you can hopefully understand. The only thing that doesn't belong on TC is you, which is why I pray to God that we never see your limping, toxic byline on another TechCrunch post between now and the end of time.
Good night and good riddance.
I mean, I can be an ass, but Paul, you did it beautifully.
Other women should be ashamed because you have overplayed the 'sexist/feminist' card for your own personal benefit.
What I do find offensive is another female pulling the sexism card because (at best) her personal tolerance was tested and/or for the sake of sensationalism (and perhaps a shot at getting to play with the big boys?).
Again - good for you for posting this!
That said, I was not offended by the post but can see how some women might find it distasteful. Finding it distasteful does not, however, imply that TC is like a "frat house" or that the author of the post is in any way sexist. I think it's pretty clear what the intent was with that post (and the point was very well made!).
However, I do like to read TC from work a couple of times a week and found the image to be potentially threatening should any coworkers (male OR female) walk by and see that content on my screen. I suppose I would have appreciated it a bit more if the article masked the images and had a little "is it OK to see women in sexually arousing positions on your screen in your current environment?" button.
You absolutely reserve the right to post whatever content you wish on your site. I would just ask that out of courtesy, you don't post material that could get me into trouble just because I'm interested in start-ups and internet companies. :)
I particularly like the way Mr Carr can tell someone to "go fuck yourself" without undermining his point.